The first thing to say -- as you’ll read in what I found
to be some fascinating detail tomorrow -- is that it’s
not GM we should be primarily mad at. But I didn’t
know that when I wrote about being charged $20 for being
two or three days late on a $55 payment. (It turns out I
may not even have been late -- the company we should
be mad at just likes charging the $20.)
You didn’t know it either when you responded. And boy, did
you ever respond. A sampling (with some good general advice
from Dorothy Mallonee at the end):
Don Hauge: You are so lucky to be able to vent
publicly. If that had happened to me, I would have been
just as mad, but I wouldn’t have been able to tell thousands
of people about it. At least when you vent, someone at GM
might actually read about their own stupid policy and change
it. When I vent, the only one who hears it is my wife.
I am indeed lucky to be able to vent publicly. One of the
great things about the Internet is that it makes it easier for
all of us.
Dr. Tom Novinger:
You paid the $20?
You paid the $20?
You paid the $20???!!
How could you? Didn’t we grow up in the sixties, when we were
all protesting over things like free speech, free love, taxes
and the war in Vietnam?
Being lucky enough to vent publicly, I figured I’d protest
that way. And then catching up on the past week’s Wall
Street Journal, I saw something to suggest that my friends the
trial attorneys -- who do some excellent things for consumers
despite the things for which I criticize them -- may soon put a
stop to crazy late charges. "Attorney Finds a Way to Battle
Bill’s Late Fees" (October 6) describes
Washington, D.C., attorney Philips Friedman’s attempt to fight
late fees by using contract law. The idea is that being late
with a payment is a violation of your contract -- but contract
law limits the damages to the actual harm done. And it would be
very hard for a credit card company to argue that my being a few
days late on a $55 payment has somehow cost them $20.
T.F. Gazda, "steelworker & consumer": It
seems I’m going through "deja-vu" reading your
newsletter here.... I’ve had the exact-same experience -- but
with DISCOVER CARD (you know, "the card that pays you
back"). I’m HAPPY to say that DISCOVER CARD SERVICES have a
much more palatable group of "customer service team
members" . . . in every case where there was
a "slip up" (of my accord), they reversed the charges
willingly. Their card is the ONLY one I use! THAT’S a GREAT
COMPANY!
I don’t have ANY respect for GM or its products . . .
being in the steel industry, I’ve seen our prices (steel sheet)
DECLINE over the past 10 years, while it seems GM’s prices have
increased at a rate greater than inflation, & they BEAT ON US
for lower prices ("what about inflation
fellahs?" . . .). I’ll NEVER EVER buy a GM vehicle,
just for this reason. That company is BULL-HEADED & too big
& working with management’s-style of the 1960’s (or was it the
1760’s? ) . . . . Fred Flintstone must be their
CEO . . . I’m just so aggravated by their LACK of true
customer focus that I had to put it on record . . . .
I own a Dodge & a BMW. General Motors WILL lose -- they just can’t
see it yet (dinosaur company). Unload your stock in them. Get a
Discover Card ASAP, & cut your losses on that silly GM
card . . . . GM isn’t WORTH it -- & there are
far-better cars on the road.
Well, I’m keeping my stock, but with more qualms (though as you’ll
read tomorrow these turn out not to have been GM customer service
reps at all).
Rafal: I had the same thing happen to me when I missed the
pay-by date on my MBNA Platinum Plus card by a single day (I had been
out of town for about 10 days and had forgotten to pay the bill before
leaving). Not only did I get charged the $20 or $25 late fee, I was
also charged a ludicrous amount of interest (MBNA uses some horribly
evil method for computing interest expenses). One would have thought
that for a card that advertises itself as a step above a gold card,
they would be willing to bend the rules for a cardholder with a pristine
payment history. Guess that’s where the American Express people still
have their niche well carved out. American Express allows you to call
in payments, which has saved me on occasion when I realized that the
payment was due in 2 or 3 days. I simply made out a check, dropped it
in the mail, and at the same time called Amex to let them know it was
on the way. No hassling with late fees, no guilt, and everyone’s happy.
For this alone, I’m willing to shell out the annual fee on my Amex Gold
card (and the fact that Amex is still one of the most pro-customer credit
companies when it comes to disputes and other billing oddities. This has
saved me from unscrupulous mail-order merchants once or twice).
Alan Silverstein: Today’s GM Credit Card Rage column was identical
to the experience with my GM Gold card when I called to protest the same
late fee. I pride myself on a virtually perfect credit rating and was not
about to let "late mail" cause me to have to pay $20 when one
payment came in a day late. I too got on with a GM service rep -- and I
am nice by nature in situations such as these, rare as they are -- and
immediately found the same confrontational attitude as you did. I have
dealt with many service reps over the years on a variety of credit card
issues (this new "late charge" that the industry has been levying
caught me by surprise, as it apparently did you as well). Regardless of
the other issuers, I have found that only with the GM service center have
I almost immediately been put on the "defensive." Virtually all
other card issuers will let you slide when it is apparent based on your
history that any lateness is clearly an aberration, and is not recurring.
Not so with GM. I immediately closed out the card, with the service rep
almost "daring" me to do it. I have also advised many an
underling to relay common customer difficulties to higher-ups, but have
always felt that these messages fall on deaf ears. I lost my points, but
I will not buy a GM product until I see that they have "reformed."
In light of what you’ll read tomorrow -- these are not GM reps or GM’s
policy -- it’s amazing GM has allowed its reputation to get hurt so badly
with this.
Tony Levelle: I once worked for a major credit card company writing
technical manuals. They treated their workers worse than anyone I’ve ever
seen. Stress illnesses were endemic. A friend went to the doctor with
headaches, nausea, and constant vomiting. This was so severe that she was
dehydrated by the time she made it to the clinic. "Oh," the
doctor said, "You must work at (major credit card company). I’ve seen
several people with these symptoms." Anyway, I feel that bashing
credit card companies is a Good Thing. Keep it up. They won’t change, but
I’ll feel better.
Perhaps it’s just this stress that led Deep Plastic, tomorrow’s source,
to crack.
Rich: These people are idiots sometimes. Don’t they realize that
the average dolt (that deserves to pay the $20) will not even have the
common sense to call up and complain? It would be in their best interest
to just waive it for anyone that calls. Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for
Nation’s Bank to send me a letter. Last month they sent out a statement
saying that their Blockbuster Visa card would no longer be giving the 1%
in Blockbuster Bucks. They are doing this to "improve service"
and are "investigating other alternatives." Yeah, right.
Lunacy abounds.
John Dobrinski: I spent six months trying to get GM to remove a
several hundred dollar charge on my card that was done by an unknown person
charging an airline ticket. I could not believe the incompetence of the
customer service dept. The GM card customer service also has three different
departments throughout the country so when you call the 800 number you might
get any one of the three offices. They also do not give out their last
names or phones so you cannot get hold of the person again. By the way,
when I wrote to GM in Detroit complaining I was told the card is not
affiliated in any way with GM.
True, except that GM made the deal with the company that services the
card, and GM has its name and logo plastered over everything. If it’s the
GM card, it’s the GM card. If they really have no control over the servicing
company, they were nuts to sign a deal like that.
Rich Stehnach: My wife and I have purchased two Oldsmobile
Silhouette minivans using the $4400 in credits earned from our GM Gold Card.
With GM’s decision to limit us to $500 a year instead of $1000 a year in
earnings, we certainly no longer feel as compelled to spend our next $50,000
on GM products. It’s clear to me but obviously not to GM that they’re
probably viewing the billions that GM Card holders have accumulated in credits
as a huge liability rather than the potential trillions in sales awaiting them
an asset. The shortsightedness of corporate America should never be
underestimated.
MK: We also once had a payment arrive late to the GM card, (I think in
‘95) and indeed at that time a simple phone call did waive the interest and
fees. You are correct in getting this steamed over the $20, and the fee is not
only unjustified, but stupid for GM and the GM card.
All this illustrates a basic truth about life, and why the free market is only
the "best system on earth," and not a "perfect system."
You see, we all live on a planet that is by and large populated by idiots. If
90% of potential consumers of anything are willing to put up with unreasonable
fees, or exorbitant prices, or shoddy workmanship, or poor quality, then the
providers of the product or service can probably do all right only selling to
them. We each have a duty, at least as fundamental as participating
intelligently in our democracy, to participate intelligently in that most
democratic of all human systems -- the free market. When anyone of us forgoes
our responsibilities as consumers, we diminish all the other consumers in our
society by misallocating resources towards expensive or shoddy or unjustified
goods and services.
You see? You’re not just fighting fer yer own twenty dollars, Jimmy
(picture Ma Joad borrowed for a Frank Capra movie on credit card rip-offs,
with either Jimmy Stewart or Henry Fonda in the role), yer fightin’ fer all
the people. But while it might not be as noble as all that -- the point of
Adam Smith’s invisible hand is that you don’t have to be noble, you can just
be out for yourself -- it’s true: a market works best when information is
clearly disclosed and consumers are intelligent in assessing it.
Bill Fletcher: Not only do they now clip $20 for a "late fee"
-- but don’t look now . . . some cards have removed the - once
10 day grace period - once 5 day grace period - so there is now NO grace
period. This is with both of my credit cards. And I am getting the statements
only two weeks before the due date. They can easily hold the posting of the
payment one or two days so it’s getting very hard to even get them the payment
on time if you have the time to run from the mail box to your checkbook and
back again (and who does have the time). I’ve made my calls to them -- Bank
of America and Wells Fargo -- and my "Sean" said "we’ve had to
do it because people are taking advantage of the grace periods." Need I
say more?
I think Bill refers here not to the ordinary grace period -- no interest
charged if you pay your bill in full by the due date, which most cards still
allow -- but an extra little grace you’d get to avoid charges if your payment
came in a few days after the due date.
Rick Lafford: I’m like you in that I tend towards used cars and drive
them mostly to the end. My current is a 1990 Camry bought from National in
1992 for $11,000. Still going strong at 173,000 miles.
So why did I ever fall for that GM rebate-on-new-cars-only card in the
first place? I guess it was the 5% that got me. Not my brightest move --
though you never know. One of these days I might go crazy and buy a new car.
Do they still make Buicks? When I was growing up -- well, you should just
have seen the looks on all our faces that day when my Dad brought home a
brand new Buick. (Well, it was the 50s.)
And finally, more good advice from Dorothy Mallonee: "I feel
qualified to comment, both as someone who’s had a fair amount of congress
with customer service personnel as a consumer, and someone who’s been on
the other end of the phone. I was a service rep for ‘the telephone company’
for 13 years, and have spoken to -- and, I hope, helped -- a fair number of
customers.
Some pointers:
- Know what you want. Your best bet is to make clear not just
that you’re angry, but what action will satisfy you. Be reasonable, of
course, but stand firm.
- Everyone has a boss. Although this varies by organization, the
front-line people are often all too eager to kick you upstairs. The
first-level supervisor usually does not want you to escalate. Play these
cards for all they’re worth, and never hesitate to escalate ever higher.
- Co-opt the person you are dealing with. Use every cheap trick
you know to create the illusion that you and your new ‘friend’ are a ‘team’
trying to reach a mutually-agreeable goal. [This also works well if you
ever find yourself the hostage in a kidnapping. -- A.T.] For example,
shamelessly use plural pronouns to discuss ‘our problem’, and ‘what we can
do about it’.
- Keep venting to an absolute minimum. You have no idea how anger
can affect people who have to listen to it many times during the day. It
frightens some people and others simply become angry in turn. Anger sounds
very personal to the rep on the other end of the phone line, even though
you know the rep is usually just a functionary with little more control
over the situation than you have. So vent, but use your dog or your
co-workers, and try to keep your interaction with the rep as calm and
business-like as possible. The points you score with your booming voice or
your razor wit will rarely carry the day. [You mean sarcasm doesn’t make
people love me? Uh, oh!] Stay focused on the problem and your expected
solution.
Tomorrow: Deep Plastic Reveals All - The Inside Story
